shantak
04-29 02:19 PM
You are missing a point here. I am on H1 through another desi firm. I stayed with them for 3 years and now my extension is coming up.My spouse's PD is May 2006 , his I-140 is approved and luckily he was able to apply for AOS last year during July fiasco. So I was able to apply for AOS as derivative on his 485. But because it is advisable that to maintain non-immigrant status while our AOS is pending I am confused whether to extend my H1 through my employer or use EAD that I got through my spouse. As you all know being able to apply for aos was very lucky opportunity last year and I do not want to mess up my aos application in anyway. I am concerned that if I am not able to respond to RFE in my H1 extension , it will affect my aos if they dig up my past.
I would not get too much worried, firstly apply for H1 extension, if by any chance you get an RFE and if you think you will not be able to answer it then withdraw the petition and shift to EAD.
I would not get too much worried, firstly apply for H1 extension, if by any chance you get an RFE and if you think you will not be able to answer it then withdraw the petition and shift to EAD.
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ashkam
12-01 02:13 PM
the flights that I have booked fly via doha, qatar.
i have heard that even in the case of london, transit visa is not required if the passenger has a valid document to enter his/her destination. which means that an indian citizen must have an indian passport while going to india, and must have a valid visa for usa if going to usa. i have heard that many people unnecessarily obtain transit visa for britain where none is required. one can check british govt websites to confirm this.
You are correct about the visa part. If you have a stamped visa in your passport for the US, you don't need a British transit visa for a London stopover. However, if you have an AP, they (BA) won't allow you to board the plane without a transit visa. This is from personal experience. However, since you are flying through Doha, I am not sure if you need anything other than your AP.
i have heard that even in the case of london, transit visa is not required if the passenger has a valid document to enter his/her destination. which means that an indian citizen must have an indian passport while going to india, and must have a valid visa for usa if going to usa. i have heard that many people unnecessarily obtain transit visa for britain where none is required. one can check british govt websites to confirm this.
You are correct about the visa part. If you have a stamped visa in your passport for the US, you don't need a British transit visa for a London stopover. However, if you have an AP, they (BA) won't allow you to board the plane without a transit visa. This is from personal experience. However, since you are flying through Doha, I am not sure if you need anything other than your AP.
KKtexas
11-25 04:31 PM
vxb2004,
Was there any LUD on ur 485 after u sent AC21 Documents in Apr?.
Was there any LUD on ur 485 after u sent AC21 Documents in Apr?.
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amitkhare77
08-10 12:06 PM
I am EB3 Dec 2006. I have changed JOB on EAD, I did file AC21 through my new employer. my new employer has already started the EB2 processing.
I would recommend you the following -
make sure you have all the information i.e. previous Job Description which was used for labor filing or the job code on your labor certification.
You have a copy of I-140 approval
your current salary offer is good to qualify EB2 prevailing wages (does not matter a lot but good to consider)
you get an experience certificate describing technologies, skills you will use for future labor filing advertisement.
Thank you my_gc_wait.
Regarding response #1 and your comment about AC21 portability, there isn't anything the employer has to do, correct? I believe, if the new job requirements is same or similar, there should be no problem with AC21.
Also, what can I request from the employer other than the job advertisement itself as evidence to make sure the position suits EB2 requirements.
I would recommend you the following -
make sure you have all the information i.e. previous Job Description which was used for labor filing or the job code on your labor certification.
You have a copy of I-140 approval
your current salary offer is good to qualify EB2 prevailing wages (does not matter a lot but good to consider)
you get an experience certificate describing technologies, skills you will use for future labor filing advertisement.
Thank you my_gc_wait.
Regarding response #1 and your comment about AC21 portability, there isn't anything the employer has to do, correct? I believe, if the new job requirements is same or similar, there should be no problem with AC21.
Also, what can I request from the employer other than the job advertisement itself as evidence to make sure the position suits EB2 requirements.
more...
Berkeleybee
05-18 08:13 PM
Good job! However, like I and some other people on this forum have mentioned before, there is the need to de-emphasize our course as an Indian course. We know the majority of people in the GC process are of Indian or Chinese origin but we should recognize we need an all-inclusive approach to this struggle.
I clicked on the link and the headline read "Indian immigrants in US raise voices" While I understand that this might have come from the reporters who put togther the news, it is important that the members of IV at the forefront of this campaign and indeed all members on this forum, portray our course as as a high-skilled immigrant course and NOT an Indian or Chinese course.
Just something to think about!
Alabaman,
We have repeatedly stressed the fact that our members are from all over the place. That we represent not only our members but the over 500,000 EB applicants from all over the world who are stuck in the process. On the other hand we cannot always control the spin that individual news organizations choose -- this CNN-IBN covers Indian issues and chose to characterize us that way.
There were Chinese members who attended our DC event, but this reporter didn't film them! Sucks.
See what I said earlier many times, including here:
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showpost.php?p=9897&postcount=55
Franklin,
We have members from all over the world. And as far as EB-3 is concerned the entire category retrogressed -- all countries. We feel that this is a problem that affects all highly skilled workers.
One thing to remember is that reporters take snippets from hours of interviews, and then their editors edit the article down further.
best,
Berkeleybee
I clicked on the link and the headline read "Indian immigrants in US raise voices" While I understand that this might have come from the reporters who put togther the news, it is important that the members of IV at the forefront of this campaign and indeed all members on this forum, portray our course as as a high-skilled immigrant course and NOT an Indian or Chinese course.
Just something to think about!
Alabaman,
We have repeatedly stressed the fact that our members are from all over the place. That we represent not only our members but the over 500,000 EB applicants from all over the world who are stuck in the process. On the other hand we cannot always control the spin that individual news organizations choose -- this CNN-IBN covers Indian issues and chose to characterize us that way.
There were Chinese members who attended our DC event, but this reporter didn't film them! Sucks.
See what I said earlier many times, including here:
http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showpost.php?p=9897&postcount=55
Franklin,
We have members from all over the world. And as far as EB-3 is concerned the entire category retrogressed -- all countries. We feel that this is a problem that affects all highly skilled workers.
One thing to remember is that reporters take snippets from hours of interviews, and then their editors edit the article down further.
best,
Berkeleybee
gc_75
07-17 08:00 PM
How did you file the AOS with company A when you are not working for that company any more? You need to attach the employment letter from Company A along with I-485 application.
For applying with Company B, you need to have fresh a PERM Labor approved from Company B.
Hope this helps.
I have a unique situation and I would really appreciate if someone can answer.
My LC and 140 was approved (March 2006) for Company A when I was working there on H1. After retrogration I changed jobs (November 2006) and went to work for Company B. My lawyer said we can apply for AOS using the approved 140 from company A. I did send the application which reached there on July 2nd. Now, do I have to go and work for Company A (which actually is not an option any more)? Or I can keep working for Company B and if 180 days are passed since the filing/receipt date I will be safe to obtain the GC? Company B is ready to start a new process for GC but if I can use the previously approved 140 and get AOS/GC approved, I really would like to do that.
Please help...:confused:
For applying with Company B, you need to have fresh a PERM Labor approved from Company B.
Hope this helps.
I have a unique situation and I would really appreciate if someone can answer.
My LC and 140 was approved (March 2006) for Company A when I was working there on H1. After retrogration I changed jobs (November 2006) and went to work for Company B. My lawyer said we can apply for AOS using the approved 140 from company A. I did send the application which reached there on July 2nd. Now, do I have to go and work for Company A (which actually is not an option any more)? Or I can keep working for Company B and if 180 days are passed since the filing/receipt date I will be safe to obtain the GC? Company B is ready to start a new process for GC but if I can use the previously approved 140 and get AOS/GC approved, I really would like to do that.
Please help...:confused:
more...
rajuram
06-19 09:52 PM
Ask your lawyer, but I do not think you can get a visa just on the basis of H1 extension receipt.
You should apply for travel documents (advance parole) with 485. This will allow you to travel without the need to get a new visa stamp.
I am not sure I understand your comments. Can you elaborate on the risks and required travel documents?
You should apply for travel documents (advance parole) with 485. This will allow you to travel without the need to get a new visa stamp.
I am not sure I understand your comments. Can you elaborate on the risks and required travel documents?
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mnq1979
09-21 07:38 AM
Hi Guys,
I am in tough spot. I was laid off from my GC sponsoring employer (A) in 2008 and joined another employer B . I did not do a AC21 notification. My dates are current and now I received an RFE to provide employment letter from current employer. The exact words of RFE are as follows:
"Submit a letter of employment attesting to applicant's current employment. This letter should be written on the company's official letterhead, citing the date the applicant began working, if a permanent full time position, the position offered, the position the applicant is currently working and the salary offered. Include corroborating evidence such as recent pay stubs, income tax returns, with all W2s or other evidence as appropriate. "
Now I am not working for original GC employer. I don't have a problem providing above from my current employer B. But whether the EVL should also mention that I am not working for GC sponsoring employer and that my current employers job profile is in same classification as previous based on AC21. Do I mention about the AC21 also in the letter? My current employer's attorneys are not that great but my current employer only wants me to use their own attorney.
Now here is the situation:
I have a job offer from another employer (Employer C) and they are in the middle of doing a H-1 transfer. In fact by tomorrow they will file the H1 paperwork. Now I don't know whether I should provide the letter from my potential new employer C . In that case, I won't be able to provide W2 or pay stubs until I join them. I have an opportunity to use my own attorney here (like murthy, Ron Gothcer..)
OR
should I provide a letter from my current employer using their attorneys and whether or not I should mention about AC21 in the employment letter.
Thanks.
I am sorry i cannot answer ur question because i m not an expert in this broken immigration process but i have a question.
Can you tell if this is ur 1st RFE on I485 or did u receive any prior RFE's also?
Did ur wife also applied for the I485 with you or u applied alone?
thanks
I am in tough spot. I was laid off from my GC sponsoring employer (A) in 2008 and joined another employer B . I did not do a AC21 notification. My dates are current and now I received an RFE to provide employment letter from current employer. The exact words of RFE are as follows:
"Submit a letter of employment attesting to applicant's current employment. This letter should be written on the company's official letterhead, citing the date the applicant began working, if a permanent full time position, the position offered, the position the applicant is currently working and the salary offered. Include corroborating evidence such as recent pay stubs, income tax returns, with all W2s or other evidence as appropriate. "
Now I am not working for original GC employer. I don't have a problem providing above from my current employer B. But whether the EVL should also mention that I am not working for GC sponsoring employer and that my current employers job profile is in same classification as previous based on AC21. Do I mention about the AC21 also in the letter? My current employer's attorneys are not that great but my current employer only wants me to use their own attorney.
Now here is the situation:
I have a job offer from another employer (Employer C) and they are in the middle of doing a H-1 transfer. In fact by tomorrow they will file the H1 paperwork. Now I don't know whether I should provide the letter from my potential new employer C . In that case, I won't be able to provide W2 or pay stubs until I join them. I have an opportunity to use my own attorney here (like murthy, Ron Gothcer..)
OR
should I provide a letter from my current employer using their attorneys and whether or not I should mention about AC21 in the employment letter.
Thanks.
I am sorry i cannot answer ur question because i m not an expert in this broken immigration process but i have a question.
Can you tell if this is ur 1st RFE on I485 or did u receive any prior RFE's also?
Did ur wife also applied for the I485 with you or u applied alone?
thanks
more...
immigrationvoice1
11-29 04:55 PM
I got my H4 stamped first and then applied for H1 while in India. Travelled to US on H4. This is the reason why I cannot work in US without stamping.
I am not too sure if USCIS would ask questions when I apply for h1B again in future through another company, about my not using my previous H1 aprooval for working in US.
The line in bold above is NOT TRUE. You can work in the USA with the approved H1B even if it is not stamped and even if you arrived using H4. All you need is a SSN along with the approved H1B to start working.
I am not too sure if USCIS would ask questions when I apply for h1B again in future through another company, about my not using my previous H1 aprooval for working in US.
The line in bold above is NOT TRUE. You can work in the USA with the approved H1B even if it is not stamped and even if you arrived using H4. All you need is a SSN along with the approved H1B to start working.
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sandy_anand
01-24 10:09 AM
Guys, sorry I do not understand the numbers very well. Assuming the same amount of spillover numbers for 2011, what will be the status of EB2 by December-2011??
Thanks,
Prasad.
If EB2-India receives around 20000 visas in 2011, the EB2-India priority dates could move to between Feb 2007 and April 2007 depending on EB3-EB2 upgrades.
Thanks,
Prasad.
If EB2-India receives around 20000 visas in 2011, the EB2-India priority dates could move to between Feb 2007 and April 2007 depending on EB3-EB2 upgrades.
more...
smmakani
07-09 11:04 AM
CP Filed at Mumbai Embassy - India
PD: Oct 2003
I would suggest to start a separate thread to know who are CP filers in the forum and then we can have a conf with IV to discuss what needs to be done. We can also send the private message to each to share our contact info.
PD: Oct 2003
I would suggest to start a separate thread to know who are CP filers in the forum and then we can have a conf with IV to discuss what needs to be done. We can also send the private message to each to share our contact info.
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GCNaseeb
08-08 04:47 PM
Employer not revoking your I-140 itself proves "employer intention" to hire him back on adjudication. You may have intention to work for sponsoring employer but if you are laid off its not in your control, right? Adjudicator always looks by law and there is no law which says if you are laid off within 180 days your I-485 can not be approved.
It sounds a cake walk from your response, What if there is an RFE after 180 days on your sponsor/employer? You missed the point that GC is for future employment with the sponsor. There are certain situations where employee can invoke AC21 and get the protection against employer initiated termination etc. If you do not work for extended period.. no matter whether it is with in 180 or not.. USCIS may anytime during adjudication, question your intention for GC.
It sounds a cake walk from your response, What if there is an RFE after 180 days on your sponsor/employer? You missed the point that GC is for future employment with the sponsor. There are certain situations where employee can invoke AC21 and get the protection against employer initiated termination etc. If you do not work for extended period.. no matter whether it is with in 180 or not.. USCIS may anytime during adjudication, question your intention for GC.
more...
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cleopatra
02-17 10:41 AM
You are right. We need to get this to everyone who is waiting for GC.
But Instead of focussing on getting this to everyone, can you focus on getting just two people to participate in this event?
Even if only a few of us do this, this will spread like wildfire by itself. We can make this event a grand success and get what we want.
Spread the word. Participate.
But Instead of focussing on getting this to everyone, can you focus on getting just two people to participate in this event?
Even if only a few of us do this, this will spread like wildfire by itself. We can make this event a grand success and get what we want.
Spread the word. Participate.
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Mahatma
08-15 03:41 PM
Congrats and enjoy the green!
Thanks for your continued interest.
Have a great independence day!
Thanks for your continued interest.
Have a great independence day!
more...
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03-14 12:07 PM
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mrajatish
05-21 12:34 PM
How about making sure individuals do not get the original PD when they use labor substitution. This will stop illegal labor trade and help a lot of us.
An USCIS memo in mid 1990's had this:
The memo (priority dates retrogression) of Mr. Rajiv S.Khanna states that beneficiary of substituted labor certificate would get the same priority date.
I was just searching uscis.gov and I found this very interesting !
Now the question is: Who is wright?
Check this out!
d) Priority date. * * * If the United States employer substitutes another alien on a labor certification, the priority date shall be the date the employer requests the substitution.
" The Service has concluded that it is unfair to other aliens who seek to immigrate to the United States on employment-based petitions if the substituted alien gains the priority date of the original alien beneficiary, since those aliens would receive a later priority date than a substituted alien. Currently, in certain employment-based immigrant categories, such as the third preference "other worker" category, an alien who benefits from a labor certification substitution can immigrate ahead of another alien who has been waiting for an immigrant visa for several years. Not only would allowing substituted aliens to receive the earlier priority date be unfair to other intending immigrants, it would also be contrary to the Service's policy of assigning a priority date to the alien rather than to the employer (see 8 CFR 204.5(e)).
Providing a priority date based on an employer's substitution of a labor certification beneficiary also carries the potential for fraud and abuse. Continuing this practice may encourage the creation of a market for labor certifications, particularly in categories in which there is a lengthy wait to receive an immigrant visa. For instance, it is conceivable that the original alien beneficiary might be induced to engage in the fraudulent practice of selling his or her status as a labor certification beneficiary to a substituted alien.
The Service, therefore, proposes to set the priority date for an alien who has been substituted for another alien on a labor certification as the date the employer requested the substitution. This proposed rule will be fair to other aliens who apply under employment-based immigrant categories, and would be consistent with the Service's policy of according a priority date to the alien rather than to the employer, thereby eliminating an inducement to commit fraud.
An USCIS memo in mid 1990's had this:
The memo (priority dates retrogression) of Mr. Rajiv S.Khanna states that beneficiary of substituted labor certificate would get the same priority date.
I was just searching uscis.gov and I found this very interesting !
Now the question is: Who is wright?
Check this out!
d) Priority date. * * * If the United States employer substitutes another alien on a labor certification, the priority date shall be the date the employer requests the substitution.
" The Service has concluded that it is unfair to other aliens who seek to immigrate to the United States on employment-based petitions if the substituted alien gains the priority date of the original alien beneficiary, since those aliens would receive a later priority date than a substituted alien. Currently, in certain employment-based immigrant categories, such as the third preference "other worker" category, an alien who benefits from a labor certification substitution can immigrate ahead of another alien who has been waiting for an immigrant visa for several years. Not only would allowing substituted aliens to receive the earlier priority date be unfair to other intending immigrants, it would also be contrary to the Service's policy of assigning a priority date to the alien rather than to the employer (see 8 CFR 204.5(e)).
Providing a priority date based on an employer's substitution of a labor certification beneficiary also carries the potential for fraud and abuse. Continuing this practice may encourage the creation of a market for labor certifications, particularly in categories in which there is a lengthy wait to receive an immigrant visa. For instance, it is conceivable that the original alien beneficiary might be induced to engage in the fraudulent practice of selling his or her status as a labor certification beneficiary to a substituted alien.
The Service, therefore, proposes to set the priority date for an alien who has been substituted for another alien on a labor certification as the date the employer requested the substitution. This proposed rule will be fair to other aliens who apply under employment-based immigrant categories, and would be consistent with the Service's policy of according a priority date to the alien rather than to the employer, thereby eliminating an inducement to commit fraud.
more...
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raysaikat
10-10 11:26 AM
Thank you!
I am not quiting my company but I am moving to India. In that case what will happen ?
Your valuable inputs are greatly appreciated.
Thank you very much!
I would have said what Phani said. Essentially, you must be on valid H1-B status; otherwise your husband's H-4 status is not valid. This means that you must remain employed in US as an US employee (get your paycheck in US, pay all US taxes, file US tax returns, etc.). For a short duration, it may be possible to remain an US employee and work from India (as a business trip), but I do not see that happening on a permanent basis.
I am not quiting my company but I am moving to India. In that case what will happen ?
Your valuable inputs are greatly appreciated.
Thank you very much!
I would have said what Phani said. Essentially, you must be on valid H1-B status; otherwise your husband's H-4 status is not valid. This means that you must remain employed in US as an US employee (get your paycheck in US, pay all US taxes, file US tax returns, etc.). For a short duration, it may be possible to remain an US employee and work from India (as a business trip), but I do not see that happening on a permanent basis.
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chinna2003
07-03 09:26 AM
Its better than not going to work and sitting at home playing with your kids or watching movies or shopping at walmart or doing laundry etc etc mulling about your future if you have time to spare for a thought
Who said the demonstrations have to be on weekday. You can very well do it on weekends and you can do it during your lunch breaks . What we lack is resolve not resources
I hope everybody agrees with that
Who said the demonstrations have to be on weekday. You can very well do it on weekends and you can do it during your lunch breaks . What we lack is resolve not resources
I hope everybody agrees with that
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indio0617
12-07 09:56 AM
Hi,
I am EB-3 ROW, PD in Nov.03, I-140 approved. I am planning on changing my current employer (non profit) to for-profit company.
I am in my H-1 B fifth year. I renewed once on my third year. By the time I change my job to the new employer, I will have about one year left in my current H-1B.
If I change the employer, will I be subject to H-1 B visa quota restriction?
I have stayed with my current employer (University) for five years just for the hope of green card. But I think this is time to move on. Staying in my current job is so detrimental to my career.
However, if the new company that may hire me, cannot find any H-1 B visa quota left for me, I will be in trouble if it is the case.
I would appreciate your advice very much.
Thank you always.
You will be counted against the cap when you move from a cap exempt (non -profit) to for profit. I was in a similar situation when i switched jobs few months ago. There were no H-1Bs left for the fiscal year. I thus switched from a non-profit to another non - profit.
I am EB-3 ROW, PD in Nov.03, I-140 approved. I am planning on changing my current employer (non profit) to for-profit company.
I am in my H-1 B fifth year. I renewed once on my third year. By the time I change my job to the new employer, I will have about one year left in my current H-1B.
If I change the employer, will I be subject to H-1 B visa quota restriction?
I have stayed with my current employer (University) for five years just for the hope of green card. But I think this is time to move on. Staying in my current job is so detrimental to my career.
However, if the new company that may hire me, cannot find any H-1 B visa quota left for me, I will be in trouble if it is the case.
I would appreciate your advice very much.
Thank you always.
You will be counted against the cap when you move from a cap exempt (non -profit) to for profit. I was in a similar situation when i switched jobs few months ago. There were no H-1Bs left for the fiscal year. I thus switched from a non-profit to another non - profit.
a_yaja
01-06 04:39 PM
My wife is on H4 and is exploring the posibility of converting to a H1. She recently went for her first interview and the people over there told her that there is a new rule for H4 to H1B conversion. According to them, she needs to go to India and get her H1B stamped before she can start working. Is this true? As far as I know, all one needs is an approved I-797 (for I-129 petition) indicating that the approval is for change of status to H1B (meaning that the approval notice has a I-94).
Please let me know if there is any merit in the above statement?
Please let me know if there is any merit in the above statement?
gc_lover
06-20 12:24 PM
Hi gc_lover,
Did u get this information from your attorney? My attorney has a different view and tells me we cannot proceed without the actual papers of certification from PBEC.
Also can u check for me what is required if we do not have the certification papers from DOL(like a print out of CERTIFIED status from DOL website) to file
for 140/485. I will try to pursue with my attorney if I get this info.
Thanks.
Case Details
TR PBEC Priority Date : 03/2003 Stauts : CERTIFIED since last week
Waiting for Certification docs. to file 140/485.
Hello,
I got this from immigration-law.com website
=======================================
06/05/2007: I-140 Petitions Ineligible for Premium Processing
Under the regulation, the USCIS is authorized to suspend certain types of I-140 petitions for the premium processing on its website notice. As of now, the following I-140 petitions are not eligible for the premium processing:
1. A second filing of a Form I-140 petition while an initial Form I-140 remains pending;
2. Labor Certification substitution requests; and
3. Duplicate Labor Certification requests (i.e., cases filed without an original labor certification from the Department of labor).
It appears that the third category includes any I-140 petitions filed without the original labor certification regardless of whether they should obtain a duplicate labor certification from the DOL. It also appears that they refuse to process on the premium processing basis the I-140 petitions to request the priority date transfer unless the original labor certification application is filed with the request.
===============================================
You can apply for 140/485 but you cannot go for premium processing. I also know a case who has done this. You do not need any extra documents to file without LC. My lawyer had confirmed this thing. However, I am planning to send print out of website and email I have from BEC.
Yes, you can file without actual LC papers, so don't wait!
Did u get this information from your attorney? My attorney has a different view and tells me we cannot proceed without the actual papers of certification from PBEC.
Also can u check for me what is required if we do not have the certification papers from DOL(like a print out of CERTIFIED status from DOL website) to file
for 140/485. I will try to pursue with my attorney if I get this info.
Thanks.
Case Details
TR PBEC Priority Date : 03/2003 Stauts : CERTIFIED since last week
Waiting for Certification docs. to file 140/485.
Hello,
I got this from immigration-law.com website
=======================================
06/05/2007: I-140 Petitions Ineligible for Premium Processing
Under the regulation, the USCIS is authorized to suspend certain types of I-140 petitions for the premium processing on its website notice. As of now, the following I-140 petitions are not eligible for the premium processing:
1. A second filing of a Form I-140 petition while an initial Form I-140 remains pending;
2. Labor Certification substitution requests; and
3. Duplicate Labor Certification requests (i.e., cases filed without an original labor certification from the Department of labor).
It appears that the third category includes any I-140 petitions filed without the original labor certification regardless of whether they should obtain a duplicate labor certification from the DOL. It also appears that they refuse to process on the premium processing basis the I-140 petitions to request the priority date transfer unless the original labor certification application is filed with the request.
===============================================
You can apply for 140/485 but you cannot go for premium processing. I also know a case who has done this. You do not need any extra documents to file without LC. My lawyer had confirmed this thing. However, I am planning to send print out of website and email I have from BEC.
Yes, you can file without actual LC papers, so don't wait!
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